Friday, October 26, 2007

WHYS- Iranian Sanctions Debate

While reading the blog of my favorite radio program World Have Your Say (link is to their new temp home) I engaged in the following debate. It is interesting because the sediment expressed by "Steve" is the norm and not the exception. Even though it is illogical and unfounded.

The blog post topic was about support of US sanctions against Iran, and weather they will have any effect on their nuclear weapons pursuit. Global warming was also mentioned. Find the post here.

Here is the exchange between Myself and another poster.

Dwight:
Sanctions on Iran? For what again? To keep them from building a nuclear power plant to wean themselves off of fossil fuels? For wanting to build a nuclear weapon to protect themselves against a nuclear armed enemy. One who called them part of an “Axis of Evil” and destroyed one of that groups members. A threat from the only nation to ever use a nuclear bomb? So in 10 years the chest beating chimps can say “sanctions aren’t working. We know they have a nuclear bomb… oops I guess we were wrong.” Sanctions because they send fighters into Iraq to “fight their enemy there before they have to fight them on their own soil.” Is that why sanctions are necessary?
Mother nature is going to come fix the whole mess created by this shallow, self-indulging, finger pointing, un-natural species we have become sooner or later. The Europeans have tried to get the US to clean up its act for years. When the biggest offender didn’t sign on to the Kyoto agreement, the participants had no choice but to stray themselves.Kind of like having athletes from every country sign on to a “no doping” contract for the Olympics except the US. All other nations will realize if the want their athletes to prosper they had best let then dope or they will never beat the Americans that didn’t sign on.
The sad ironies are that Humans are supposed to be the most intelligent race, yet it is our ignorance that is going to destroy the world as we know it. We Americans consider ourselves to be a “free people”, and yet it’s our lack of understanding of the word “freedom” that enslaves the world. Christianity claims that “The Earth will be destroyed.” It is many who use Jesus Christ’s name to gain power that will be the most likely catalyst to the Earth’s destruction.

steve:
Dwight, if it were only for nuclear power, nobody would have an issue with it. Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons. I know your types hate the US, hates Israel, but how much do you hate yourselves? These are INSANE, totally irrational people. It’s not like the soviets. They understood mutually assured destruction. These people welcome death, they have no fear of it, so nuclear weapons will likely be used. Do you really want yourself and your loved ones to get killed solely because you want someone to stand up to the US? lot of good that will do you after you are vaporized.
And a last point, if you really believe Iran’s denials of having a nuclear weapons program, did you also believe Ahadminjad when he said Iran has no homosexuals?

Dwight:
Steve,
As of right now the only reason we have to believe that Iran wants a nuclear weapon is the word of the same source that said Iraq already had one. It seems you may be an example of what a new study had found. Links to the study and a summarization of it can be found here (http://logicandpolitics.blogspot.com/2007/10/new-study-shows-people-prefer-comfort.html). It basically found people will believe gossip and especially negative information in spite of overwhelming amount of facts before them.Our own operatives have found quite the contrary.

You obviously listen to NPR, so here is a source to an article about the lack of evidence (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6167304.stm). The IAEA had found similar results previously(http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-11-11-iaea-iran_x.htm). I mean, why are they bothering to send people over there if they are going to deny the intelligence reports they receive back? Show me a credible source that has intelligence and not just wild vindictive guesses about their intentions. And again, even if they did, I would have a hard time blaming them.

It seems you are willing to make assumptions yourself without any founded intelligence. You don’t know what “my type”. Hate is an emotion I have no use for. It is a self- serving emotion with no possible positive outcome. The closest thing I feel is frustration with people who perform illogical and unjust acts. I certainly don’t hate myself. If anything I probably have a “Messiah complex”. Hate is beneath me and can not be part of the path to truth.

I do remember when it was the Soviets were the “Insane, totally irrational people.” I remember thinking the Japanese and their Kamikaze fighters were unreasonable. I also remember when the Iranians were marching in the streets chanting, “death to America”. It was shortly after we propped up Saddam Hussein, and supplied him chemical weapons to use on the Iranian people.

You want to generalize “insane people” who have nuclear weapons. Pakistan, the most likely country of at least part time resident Ossama Bin Ladden, has a few nuclear weapons. Their government is unstable and they are not in control of their whole country. Yet we tolerate them having a weapon and allowing “terrorist training camps” to operate inside their borders. Why no concern over the homeland of US Enemy #1, but over concern with Iran? The logic doesn’t align.

I know and associate with about a half dozen Iranians and people of Persian background. They are giving, kind, and educated people. I have met their families, who still live there. Some are even Catholic. The rest are about as much like the stereo type you refer to as you are. It is just not a reality.

Before Iran can be the source of my “vaporization”, they first need to get a working cascade of centrifuges, refine the uranium to weapons grade, develop and test a war head, and then develop and test a missile. North Korea has found this to be a lot harder then believed. There will be plenty of stages where a weapons program is evident.

I do not believe the words of any politician. I believe only their actions and the proof of documented, educated, experts. Many people in the past said they believe Saddam had WMD’s. Only one of them invaded Iraq on forcefully faulty assumptions leading to the death of more then 3,800 Americans and an indeterminate number of Iraqis.

One last point, what can the US do about Iran? At best we can disrupt the organization and end up with another hundred unknown heads of the snake instead of just one we now know?

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